WE DISCUSS VANA’DIEL Special Edition
Koichi Ishii & Yoshitaka Amano Part 1

Although this discussion is about FFXI, I’d like to begin with the topic of FFI, the first game you were both involved with.

The FFI project began about six months after I joined Square (as they were formerly known) as a part-timer, and there was a discussion in the company about dividing the development team. There were about four teams in total, including one led by Mr. Sakaguchi* and one led by Mr. Tanaka*. Before I knew it, I was assigned to be part of Mr. Sakaguchi's team. Well, not that I had a choice, since I was just a part-timer at the time. (laughs wryly)

When the time came for the team to convene, there were only about four of us! Then Mr. Sakaguchi proclaimed, "Our team is going to make an RPG like DRAGON QUEST! Ishii, you come up with a plan!” and suddenly thrust me into a planning role. But after that, Mr. Sakaguchi and the others became busy with developing Highway Star* and almost completely abandoned us. (laughs)

That’s rather... (laughs)

Since the Sakaguchi team only had a few members, we were relocated to a warehouse that was divided into two rooms, which wasn’t a flattering place to be.

Mr. Sakaguchi, Ms. Shibuya*, Mr. Kawazu* and Nasir* were working on Highway Star in the back room. Meanwhile, I was all by myself in the front room, working in a makeshift cubicle formed from several foldable conference tables arranged in a U-shape.

It’s hard to imagine that the company we now know as Square Enix had such humble beginnings. How did you proceed with the project from there?

I liked games like DRAGON QUEST and the Legend of Zelda, so I started to work on planning out an RPG in my own way. I’d already envisioned some of the parts that later became the core of FFI, such as the side-view battles, a world with the four elements of fire/water/wind/earth, and a diorama-like world map.

As for smaller details, for example, the thick window borders were inspired by the iron pipes in Mario Bros. and the white glove pointing cursor was inspired by Crackout*. I put all these ideas together one by one, while also learning about pixel art on the side, which I printed out on numerous occasions to show Mr. Sakaguchi and ask him for his opinion.

Sounds like you were already thinking about the setting of FFI from very early on. Could you tell us more about that?

Back then, I wanted to create a fantasy world in digital form, and was often drawing illustrations in my notebook. With FFI too, I wanted to design a world where spirits and other supernatural beings felt close by. From that point, the visual images I had in mind were based on Mr. Amano’s illustrations.

At the time, the three illustrators whose styles were closest to my ideas of fantasy were Rodney Matthews*, Greg Hildebrandt*, and Mr. Amano. In particular, I considered Mr. Amano to be a leading figure in the world of Japanese fantasy illustrations, to a point where I referenced “Maten”* to help further my imagination when working on projects for Square. That’s why Mr. Amano was the first person that came to mind when I thought about who I wanted to ask to illustrate the world of FFI.

So your imagination was set on Mr. Amano from the beginning.

I went to Mr. Sakaguchi and passionately explained that Mr. Amano’s art was perfect for FFI, but at that point, he didn’t seem very convinced. But then about a week later, it was Mr. Sakaguchi who approached me saying, “Ishii, I found a great artist, what do you think?” and when he showed me the illustration, it turned out to be Mr. Amano’s work. (laughs)

I imagine you had something to say about that. (laughs)

Absolutely. (laughs) But I was happy that Mr. Sakaguchi showed interest in Mr. Amano on his own, even if he wasn’t quite convinced when I’d recommended him. After obtaining Mr. Sakaguchi's consent, he said he would visit Mr. Amano’s office in Yokohama to make the request in person, so Ms. Shibuya and I accompanied him.

Back then, Mr. Sakaguchi was driving a sports car, an RX-7. I sat in the passenger seat because I'm big, but the backseat was very narrow and Ms. Shibuya had to sit almost completely sideways. But even in that state, all of us were bubbling with excitement on our way to Yokohama, eager to know if Mr. Amano would take on our request. And when we asked Mr. Amano, he answered, "Sure. I'll do it," without even thinking twice. I was really happy when he said that, and the three of us returned to our office relieved.

Back then, would you say you saw Mr. Amano from the perspective of a fan, rather than a game developer?

I’d say so. I remember very well when Mr. Amano visited Square during the development of FFI. Mr. Sakaguchi called the team together beforehand and warned us, “Mr. Amano is coming today, but don’t act like a groupie. Don't you dare beg him for an autograph or anything like that!" The other staff members listened obediently, but as soon as Mr. Amano arrived, I went straight to him with the copy of his art book I always kept on hand and asked him to sign it. Then everyone else ended up doing the same, and so it became an autograph session for a little while. Mr. Sakaguchi had a stern look on his face. (laughs wryly)

As a fan, you couldn’t pass up the opportunity.

I mean, it’s Mr. Amano, you know? There’s no way I would’ve listened. (laughs)

Well, I was about 22 at the time, and I didn’t really listen to what people told me to do.

By the way, what was your first encounter with Mr. Amano's work?

I think it was at a bookstore. On many occasions, I’d be walking around the store glancing at the piles of novels and think, “Hey, that illustration seemed kinda nice,” and upon taking a closer look, it’d turn out to be an illustration by Mr. Amano. I was particularly impressed by the illustrations in The Elric Saga*.

At the time, I’d just become an independent illustrator and was often working on cover illustrations for fantasy novels. But fantasy novels weren’t a major genre back then, so I think Mr. Ishii is a really hardcore fan.

What did you like about Mr. Amano’s art, Mr. Ishii?

His illustrations exude a sense of “space” in some shape or form. The other thing is that, even though the illustrations look beautiful at first glance, they are subtly filled with evil-looking beings and other dark imagery. The coexistence of beauty and the eerie was in line with the image of fantasy I had in my mind.

Mr. Amano, could you also share your point of view on those days?

At the time, I was in my early 30s and was feeling limited by my job of designing characters for animations. So I became an independent illustrator, and soon after that, I received the commission for FFI.

In those days, Square wasn’t as well-known as it is today, and FF didn’t even exist yet. I’m curious as to how you came to accept the job.

Rather than it being a matter of whether I recognized Square, I was still unsure what it’d be like to work for a video game. Back then, most people’s perception of games were those tennis-type games where you hit a ball and forth, or invader games, and very few of them had actual stories or music. Although I personally enjoyed playing games, I’d never imagined they’d become a part of my career and was very surprised when I first heard their proposal.

Were there any deciding factors that led to your decision?

For me at the time, fantasy was the theme I wanted to draw the most. I honestly didn't know much about video games, but I wanted to try any job that led to fantasy. That's how motivated I felt about my fantasy work.

What kind of stance did you have at the time towards drawing fantasy illustrations?

The basic premise is that fantasy isn’t the real world, so anything goes. Of course, there are many illustrators who reference weapons and armor from the Western medieval ages, but there’s no need to be faithful to reality. There’s no need for reference material, and even if it’s something abstract taken to the extreme, I think it’s fine if that’s what the illustrator themselves considers to be fantasy.

Modern fantasy, especially high fantasy, has a common image of "swords and sorcery," but I see you had no such reservations.

As a matter of fact, the lack of restrictions is what appealed to me. When I was working in animation, I had to design characters based on historical research. For example, Time Bokan* is about going back in time and having adventures in various eras, but we had to design the characters based on the historical research of each destination. In a way, checking the references to make sure there weren’t any mistakes was more difficult than the actual process of drawing the illustrations. At the time, I’d gained some reputation as an animator, but I felt that it was becoming a repetitive process. I started to feel more and more tired of looking at references and wanted to design more freely.

It’s true that the characters in Time Bokan, despite being arranged in bold ways, were designed to be true to their respective historical backgrounds.

On the other hand, fantasy doesn’t exist in reality to begin with, so there’s isn’t a “correct” answer. And yet, if it's a fairy, for example, it's obvious that the motif is a butterfly. For butterflies, I was also in charge of the character design for Minashigo Hutch*, so I had an image in my mind of the patterns on the wings. In other words, fantasy-related work gave me the freedom to create new designs based on knowledge and experience I’d accumulated over the years. That in itself was a big challenge for me and a lot of fun. In the case of novels, for example, I was happy that my illustrations could help the readers imagine the scenes that they were reading.

The illustrations for the Elric Saga, which Mr. Ishii mentioned earlier, had a particularly strong response. I’d also taken on some work for science fiction soon after I became an independent illustrator, but I became more and more involved in fantasy after realizing it was the genre where I could express myself best. * Minashigo Hutch (known as “The Adventures of Hutch the Bee” in English) is a TV animation aired between 1970 and 1971. The first and possibly most well-known fairytale anime by Tatsunoko Production.

Mr. Ishii, returning to the topic of FFI, what kind of illustrations did you request Mr. Amano to draw?

At the time, package illustrations for NES games were mostly designed to be popular among children, like those of DRAGON QUEST. In that context, I wanted to differentiate the image of FFI from that of other games. So I told him that I wanted to go for an overall mature look, with a main character that was several heads tall. Although I did explain the general setting of the game like the four elements, I didn’t tell him about the scenario details and asked him to draw some concept artwork first.

There were no restrictions that time, and I was happy to have plenty of freedom in drawing fantasy illustrations.

Ah yes, this is one of the first pictures I painted. I pondered things like, “Is it okay to have the hero turned away?” or “Who are these figures supposed to be, anyway?” but drew whatever I wanted.

It’s truly a wonderful illustration, even looking at it now. I think this was also Mr. Sakaguchi’s favorite too.

I imagine it was a great pleasure to have Mr. Amano providing illustrations for the game you were designing, Mr. Ishii.

Oh absolutely, but even before that, I felt blessed to be the first to see Mr. Amano’s work even before they were published in an artbook. Not to mention I got to see the rough drawing before the finished product! Personally, I love the rough sketches that Mr. Amano draws. Each and every line that was penciled in doesn’t look wasted, and they convey the feeling of the characters’ afterimages, a fantastic atmosphere, and energy. You can feel the artist’s thoughts in them, and it was fun to ponder things like “I wonder why this part was drawn with a thicker line?”

Rough sketches may not be “complete” as a piece of art, but they might have their own unique appeal.

Perhaps it’s different from person to person, but I could feel the emotions and themes in Mr. Amano’s rough sketches. It was also fun to compare completed illustrations with their rough sketches to see how they had changed. I've worked with many different illustrators since then, and it's always fun to see the rough sketches. So, for me, Mr. Amano is also the person who helped me discover a new way to enjoy illustrations.

As you can see in the concept artwork collection, Mr. Amano worked on many of the monster designs.

Although the package illustration is the most prominent, the main role of illustrations for games back then was to instill an image in the players’ minds, as if to say, “This is how you should imagine the game.” In that context, it was great that Mr. Amano also drew the monsters for FFI. As you play the game, monsters designed by Mr. Amano appear one after another, so the artwork on the package and the in-game depictions probably weren’t all that different from each other.

It’s true that the monsters in FFI have a distinct Amano-style look to them, even though they’re depicted in pixel art. I wonder how that’s possible.

I think it’s because the monsters have distinctive silhouettes. The NES had various limitations like resolution and the number of colors, so even if the original illustrations drew the eyes and mouths in great detail, you couldn’t fully express everything. Because of that, silhouettes and poses are crucial in pixel art. Pixel art designed with those concepts in mind will resemble the original illustration, even if it’s on the NES.

That’s where my background in animation came in handy. When it comes to animation, it’s important to design characters with silhouettes that can be recognized even from a distance. I had that in mind when designing the monsters for FFI, and it turned out to be suitable for pixel art too.

Typically when designing dozens of monsters, the artist’s preferences and tendencies tend to influence the silhouettes to be somewhat similar overall. But every monster Mr. Amano designed for FFI is distinct, which I find amazing. However, I did have some hesitations when Mr. Amano drew monsters in frontal view. FFI’s battles were displayed in profile view, so it felt odd to have monsters in frontal view, even if their illustrations and silhouettes looked good. That being said, changing the perspective of the monsters would ruin their silhouettes, so I sometimes approved them anyway.

When it comes to illustrations for FFI, the packaging is unforgettable. Compared to other NES games of the time, it was clearly different.

I drew this one towards the end of FFI’s development. With novels and other works, I’d draw the cover illustration first, so I remember being excited to finally work on the package illustration.

I was floored when I saw this design for the Warrior of Light. The armor is blue, the cloak is yellow, and they’re accented by bits of red. Such a color combination would normally be out of the question, but it’s put together so beautifully here. And with the framed image of the princess in the background, the way the neutral and faint colors are used is very Mr. Amano, and I think it’s wonderful. I especially like that when Mr. Amano uses a red color, it’s vermilion. The white background gives the illustration a clean, transparent feel.

I’m sure many people saw this illustration and felt that FF had a mature coolness to it.

Many people who owned an NES at the time might not have known about Mr. Amano. However, I believe the illustration was able to leave an impression with people who saw it and went, “That art looks amazing.” The package illustration has the important role of providing the first impression of the game, so when I saw this illustration, it reaffirmed my belief that asking Mr. Amano was the right decision.

Mr. Amano, how did you feel when you finished FFI, your first video game project?

Something that left a strong impression with me was something like momentum, talent, or “energy to create a new era” that I felt from Mr. Ishii and everyone at Square (as they were formerly known). That energy provided me with a powerful motivation to draw illustrations for FFI, and there was never a moment where I felt betrayed by the emotion I felt at the time. And for myself, working on FFI gave me confidence in illustrating a fantasy world, so right after I finished working on FFI, I was filled with a burning desire to take on all sorts of new challenges. So when I heard from Mr. Ishii that there would be a sequel to FFI, I was excited to be able to take on new challenges.

The illustrations for FFII have a slightly different atmosphere to them compared to those of the previous game. I feel like brighter colors were used overall.

When we were starting the FFII project, Mr. Sakaguchi mentioned we should go for something more “pop.” I didn’t really understand what he meant by “pop,” but my guess was that he wanted to make the imagery a little more accessible for the general audience. Since the Warrior of Light’s design on FFI's package illustration had defied my expectations in a good way, I first consulted Mr. Amano about it.

When Mr. Ishii told me about the concept of FFII, I had the epiphany that using fluorescent colors, such as orange yellow, might give the game a different “pop” feeling compared to previous depictions of fantasy. I thought it would be a good fit for the FF series and felt that bringing it into being would be an interesting challenge for me as an illustrator.

I think it was the time when Mr. Amano was also interested in modern art, so now I feel that this trend was inevitable.

What’s your favorite illustration from FFII, Mr. Ishii?

It’d have to be the package illustration, of course. I have a feeling Ms. Shibuya was the one that drew the rough draft for proposing the base illustration. When I received Mr. Amano’s illustration, I was dumbfounded. I saw the sharp-eyed youth with a sword at his side, and I was like, “Here it is!” Although I tried to maintain a professional attitude as a game designer when interacting with Mr. Amano, I couldn’t help but revert to being a fan again whenever I saw these wonderful illustrations.

Next, I’d like to move on to the topic of FFIII.

When the FFIII project originally launched, I was working in the Makai Toushi SaGa* development team. Then Mr. Sakaguchi approached me to create the pixel art for each job in FFIII. I refused at first, but eventually I was worn down and only accepted on the condition that I would be allowed to do all of the pixel art myself. After all, the pixel art wouldn’t have a sense of unity if it was made by multiple artists.

Which reminds me, Mr. Amano’s concept art for the monsters in FFI and FFII are black-and-white, while they’re in color for FFIII.

The use of color drastically changes our impressions, doesn’t it? (Flipping through illustrations) At the time, I really liked this illustration of Hein. Mr. Amano has a unique way of depicting skeletons in his drawings. I’d love to have some silver jewelry using this as a motif... Also, if you look at these illustrations in chronological order, you can see that Mr. Amano's style changed a lot in a short period of time. Even though the FF series was producing sequels in less than two years at the time, the changes in these illustrations are evidence that Mr. Amano was taking on new challenges for us with each game.

You're right, it's changed quite a bit across the three games.

Around that time, Mr. Amano also worked on the cover illustrations for Guin Saga* and Vampire Hunter D*. I’d like to put those cover illustrations in chronological order too, and study how Mr. Amano evolved as an artist over time.