FINAL FANTASY XI 22nd Vana'versary Special Feature
Sound Composer Interview featuring
Nobuo Uematsu, Kumi Tanioka & Naoshi Mizuta — Part 1 of 2

FFXI was the first online RPG in the Final Fantasy series, so can you please share with us your thoughts from when you first heard about the project?

At the time, we had never really played an online game like that before, and I remember wondering if it truly was all that different from the games that had come before it. As such, I don't think I had any particular notion of "Since this is an online game, we should approach the music like this."

Mr. Uematsu, when were you first approached about FFXI?

Hmm, I wonder...　I think the project probably got started while we were in Hawaii for development on FFIX. We were also working on FFX at the time, meaning that FFXI would need to be developed in parallel. I said it'd be impossible, so we ended up getting a team of three people each for both FFX and FFXI.

I see... So that's how Ms. Tanioka and Mr. Mizuta were selected to work on FFXI.

That's the first I'm hearing of this. (laughs) One day, I was suddenly called into a meeting room, where I saw Mr. Uematsu, Mr. Mizuta, and Mr. Matsushita* sitting before me. They simply asked me, "So, do you want to work together?"

Yeah, that's not very much information to go on. (laughs)

When I asked about what we'd be working on, they kind of avoided the question, so I followed up with "I guess?" At that point, they told me to take a seat. It was something along the lines of, "It's FFXI." More than the fact it was an online game, I was taken aback by the fact that I'd be working on a Final Fantasy game. It was a lot of pressure.

Does that mean that you started working with Mr. Uematsu before Ms. Tanioka did, Mr. Mizuta?

Yes, that's correct. I believe it was only the first month or so that Mr. Uematsu and I were working alone though.

Yes, that's correct. We didn't work on our own for very long.

Yes, I think you're right. I was convinced that they had been working on it together for a while and that I was called in to help out once the work was starting to ramp up.

Actually, the reason I asked these two to join the team was because I wanted everyone on the sound team at Square (the company's name at the time) to somehow be involved with the Final Fantasy series. I figured it would be good for their careers and also a way to help make a name for themselves. I suppose it was kind of a parental instinct of mine. (laughs)

Thank you for that.

Naturally, the most important reason was that it simply wouldn't have been possible for me to compose all of FFX and FFXI's music by myself. (laughs wryly)

So once you had your three-person team in place, how were the duties split up between you?

After our first meeting had concluded, we looked over the songs that had been requested and decided who would handle each one. We gradually divided up the songs, but both of us were avoiding the song for the final boss (the Shadow Lord), so that one wasn't decided until the very end. Ideally, the music for an RPG's final boss encounter needs to be powerful and moving, even if most players are only going to hear it a handful of times, which can be difficult given the effort required to compose it.

That's exactly right! At times, it almost doesn't feel worth the effort. That's why I prefer the battle-based songs that the players are going to listen to over and over again. (laughs)

In the end, I was put in charge of the piece, but up to that point, I had never written a proper final boss theme like that before. Given that I was suddenly thrust into writing a song for Final Fantasy, and for its final boss nonetheless, I was like, "Whoa, wait a minute!"

Aside from that song, were you able to choose your favorite songs and work from there?

Yes. Aside from the final boss, I could simply say, "I'll take this one" and it was decided right then and there.

While working on FFX, I feel like I was constantly assigning tasks to team members such as Mr. Hamauzu*1 and Mr. Nakano*2, but I don't really recall doing that on FFXI.

How about, for example, the song "Airship," which plays while you're riding on the airship in FFXI. The airship is a characteristic element of the Final Fantasy series, so was there ever talk that Mr. Uematsu should be the one to handle it?

When it came time to decide who would be responsible for each song, we weren't really sure what kind of songs there would be or how they would be played in the game. Basically, we were given some general information that players would experience, such as the existence of various countries, vast fields, battles, airships, ports, and traveling to various locations. Therefore, we may have asked ourselves something along the lines of, "Should Mr. Uematsu handle this?" However, I don't really remember...

I remember the three of us standing in the corner of a hallway looking over the list of songs.

We discussed the songs while standing in the hallway? Actually, now that you mention it, you might be right. (laughs)

There were three countries in the game and our team was made up of three people, so the first order of business was deciding who would handle each country. From there, I feel like we decided that Mr. Uematsu would take San d'Oria, while I handled Windurst, and Ms. Tanioka would be responsible for Bastok. And as was mentioned previously, the song for the final boss battle wasn't decided until the end.

If things hadn't gone the way they did, I think it would've been some time before I could ever write the song for a final battle.

FFXI is an MMORPG (massively multiplayer online role playing game), making it completely different from traditional RPGs in terms of the world setting's depth as well as the amount of time you can spend playing it. Did any of that affect how you approached writing the songs? For example, did you discuss making the songs longer than usual before they started looping?

I mentioned this earlier, but I don't believe we had an awareness of online games in the beginning. In other words, we didn't really understand what online games were actually about, so there was no sense of what the songs should be. Therefore, all three of us simply started writing the songs like we had always done before.

I remember that at the time, Mr. Mizuta was the only one of us who had any experience playing online games, and he ended up teaching me a lot about them.

That was because one of the project members told me it'd be useful for our work.

You don't say! You were so knowledgeable about online games; I just figured you were a fan of them in general.

I feel as if the company's intention was to first have Mr. Uematsu put his own personal imprint on the music and to then have it become the foundation of FFXI's background music. Conversely, I didn't have very much experience at the time, so they likely wanted me to gain an understanding of what MMORPGs were about, and then write music that would fit the genre.

I see... Although the type of the game wasn't something you were acutely aware of, Mr. Uematsu, you did write "Ronfaure," which plays for four minutes in a single loop. As such, I figured that you must have written that song while taking the unique requirements of an MMORPG's gameplay into consideration.

I started taking pleasure in creating longer compositions around the time of FFVII, so I think it just kind of grew from there. When I worked on games for the Famicom*, the cartridges didn't have very much memory, so I couldn't really write longer songs, meaning many of them consisted of a single chorus that lasted only 20 or 30 seconds. However, the memory available to us gradually increased over time, and that, combined with better data composition and compression technology, enabled me to create a song in FFVII featuring a single chorus that lasts more than seven minutes.

I imagine that when you're limited to how long a song can be, it has a direct effect on what you can express over the course of that song.

I don't think it's so much that shorter songs are intrinsically bad, but as a composer, it's simply more fun to be told, "You don't have to worry about the length, just write the song however you see fit." (laughs) Although, I was personally working on three projects concurrently, which made it a very stressful time in my life.

You made a similar comment on the FFXI music portal site. You mentioned that the situation led to the creation of the song "Ronfaure," and that it gave you the feeling that you should live a life that is true to yourself.

I imagine every creative person feels the same way, but whenever you strive to "make something better than what came before it," the end results usually don't turn out as good as you were hoping for. That leads to added tension, and the songs do not work out, no matter how many you write. We are not given unlimited time to work on these things, so we often end up taking the same approach. So that is how "Ronfaure" was born, and while I figured it was the only path forward for me, I also felt like I was satisfied with the process. In that sense, I suppose the song allowed me to realize that I did not need to force myself to change if I didn't want to.

Moving on, I would like to discuss the composition of some individual songs. "Memory of Stone" is an important part of the world of FFXI that Mr. Uematsu transformed into "Memoro de la Ŝtono," which is one of the game's representative songs. Can you please share how this song came about?

Yes, the vocal section was sung in Esperanto*.

You have mentioned before that you chose the language, Mr. Uematsu, but what made you decide to use Esperanto?

Well, the trend at the time within Square was to use English lyrics for any songs that contained vocals. I really wasn't a fan of that trend and felt that if a game was made by Japanese people, why should it have songs sung in a language that isn't Japanese? Therefore, I decided to use Latin for the lyrics in FFVIII's opening movie, so that not only Japanese people, but also people from the US, the United Kingdom, France, or wherever else would not be likely to understand them either. I thought that would help even things out somewhat on a worldwide scale.

So it was a bit of silent resistance on your part.

Yes, I suppose so. (laughs) Afterwards, with FFIX and FFX, we could use Japanese for the lyrics, but with FFXI, I wanted to use a language other than Japanese again. I remember thinking, "We used Latin in FFVIII, so we should select a language that even fewer people would know for this one." That's how I ended up choosing Esperanto.

I think it might just be the perfect language for FFXI, given that it's a game that brings together people from many different countries.

I knew about his desire to use a language that was not specific to any one country, but I never realized just how particular Mr. Uematsu was about the topic.

Also, in recent years, people overseas often think it's cooler to have Japanese in the games anyway.

Indeed. That's why, even today, I think it's better to use Japanese.

Next, I'd like to talk about the FFXI song "Prelude." While the first half of this song features the same chord progression as the traditional "Prelude" theme from the Final Fantasy series, the chords change from C → Ab → Bb → Gb after the first loop, which is quite a dramatic departure. Is this version of "Prelude" the only one in the series with such a bold arrangement?

Hmm... Maybe I was just tired of the traditional version?

(laughs)

Aside from that, I previously heard Mr. Sakimoto's* arrangement of "Prelude" and figured it'd be okay for me to change the key. So I think it was probably a result of that as well.

How did you two feel when you heard FFXI's version of "Prelude"?

I've actually played "Prelude" on the piano at some of Star Onions'* live shows, and I remember thinking that the key change helped add additional emphasis and emotion to the song.

This is unrelated to this version of "Prelude," but when I first started working on Final Fantasy, I had many opportunities to use those familiar "Prelude" motifs while composing music for the series. Mr. Uematsu mentioned before that he had kind of grown tired of the original version, but I'm not there yet personally. As something of a personal challenge, I am making an attempt at reharmonization* for the chords without changing a single note from those in the original melody. My hope is to create an arrangement that I find interesting and is also a refreshing take for the listeners as well.

I see... So you aren't changing the "Do-Re-Mi-So" arpeggio.

The progression will be the same if you start from C, so I choose a different starting point and then use reharmonization to come up with an image for each title.

It's "Do-Re-Mi-So," meaning you can start with F or also with Fm (minor).

Mr. Soken* used the melody from "Prelude" as the motif for the song "Torn from the Heavens" in FFXIV, but it was actually a minor arrangement. When I heard it, I realized how good the use of minor arrangements could be. By the way, I personally feel like "Prelude" is a symbol of peace and tranquility. Although Final Fantasy is known for its battles, hearing "Prelude" gives you the feeling that the world is at peace.

When starting the arpeggio in "Prelude" (C major scale) from Fm, some of the notes become what are known as tension notes or dissonant notes. However, depending on the way they are harmonized, they can still be made to work. As an example, we asked Mr. Mizuta to create a pattern starting from Fm, so please take a listen to hear the difference for yourself.

Nobuo Uematsu, Arrangement: Naoshi Mizuta

While much of the music in FFXI has a somewhat pastoral melody or otherwise heavier atmosphere, I feel like a song such as "Sometime, Somewhere" begins with a lighter marimba phrasing and is a masterpiece that is a reflection of Mr. Uematsu's humorous side. Can you share with us your memories of writing this particular song?

Whenever I listen to songs like this, it reminds me of the time I forced myself to write more orchestral-like pieces. Looking back, I feel like there was a trend starting around FFVI to make all of our game music more orchestral in nature. Orchestration is a highly specialized field, so I learned a lot while I was composing the music for the games. I believe that as part of that process, we used a lot of sounds that are common to orchestras, such as marimba and pizzicato*. However, by the time FFXI came around, I had pretty much lost interest in orchestra music. I realized that I preferred making music with synthesizers.

I had no idea there was that kind of history behind such a light-hearted song. I definitely wasn't expecting that answer. Touching on your point about synthesizers though, I could feel your passion when listening to the music for FANTASIAN*, which is chock full of synth sounds.

I decided that I no longer wanted to include orchestral music if it was going to cause me such mental anguish. Instead, there is still a lot of music that I wish to create using synthesizers, so that is what I wanted to spend the rest of my life doing. I feel like that change in my thinking occurred around the time of FFXI.

Although it is partially due to the advancement of game consoles over the years, the sound quality of electronic instruments simulating acoustic versions is also continually improving. Do you think it is inevitable that game music will continue to become more orchestral as a result?

Yes, I suppose so. Back then, many people wanted orchestral music in their games. Naturally, in terms of game music, I realize there is value in orchestral music such as with the Dragon Quest series. So Final Fantasy was following that trend, and so were composers from other video game companies as they looked to take advantage of that kind of music's popularity. I feel there were multiple reasons for that, but one of them is probably that many Japanese people tend to think of orchestral music as a more "elevated" art form. It's the same for me, but whenever an orchestra is playing the music within a game, I feel like it has more value in a sense—that it is somehow of higher quality.

I agree. I feel like that is a view shared by many.

Therefore, I was happy when we had an orchestra playing Final Fantasy music. I felt a real sense of pride at the time and wanted people to admire what we had accomplished. However, over time, I began to feel as if something was off. Just because you have an actual orchestra playing a piece of music doesn't make it any more valuable than any other method. So I felt that if we simply used orchestras for all of our game music, the medium would never see any progress.

You spoke about this topic previously in your discussion with Yoichi Ochiai.

While I think there is a place for orchestral game music, I also thought it'd be nice for people to create game music simply using a single analog synthesizer, which is what brought me to where I am today.

I would also like to ask about the song "Sorrow." This song features the use of a Rhodes* electric piano, which reminded me of another famous song that used a Rhodes, "Fisherman's Horizon" in FFVIII. Mr. Uematsu, do you have some kind of special connection to the Rhodes piano as an instrument?

I have a lot of memories about the Rhodes piano. I bought an 88-key Rhodes suitcase piano when I was in university. I think it cost about 840,000 yen at the time.

You spent 840,000 yen as a student!?

I took out a loan for it. Obviously, 840,000 yen is a lot of money for a student, and I remember wandering outside the Rhodes shop thinking how expensive it was, but my girlfriend at the time, who I later ended up marrying, told me, "Just buy it and it'll all work out in the end!" That was all the motivation I needed, and so I bought it. I still have a special place in my office for that Rhodes to this day.

So your wife was there to encourage you. (laughs)

Have any of you ever made such a commitment to purchase an instrument?

Definitely not to that extent.

No, not me either. It's hard to buy vintage or acoustic instruments.

Yes, they can be quite expensive.

For me personally, I'm more likely to buy a computer than purchase an expensive musical instrument.

I suppose that's a sign of the changing times. A computer, huh?

There was a time when I wanted to buy a Rhodes, and I went into a music store to look at one, but I couldn't afford it. (laughs)

If you just pull the trigger and buy it, it really gives you a special selection of instruments (tones). To this day, I always feel like creating moments that are capable of highlighting the Rhodes piano's strengths. More than anything, I find it to have a very gentle sound. It's warm, soft, and inviting. That's one of the things I still love about it to this day.

Are you still using that same 840,000 yen Rhodes today?

Unfortunately, it was broken many years ago, so it doesn't make a sound anymore. I keep thinking I'll get around to repairing it someday, but I'm already 65 years old.

Maybe now that we've talked about it, you can use this as an opportunity to get it fixed? Perhaps if your Rhodes can be given new life, it might inspire some new ideas within you as well.

You might be right. Although, the Rhodes weighed about 120 kg (about 265 lbs), so it took four of my bandmates to carry it onto the stage when I was in university. So I'll definitely need somebody to help me move it. (laughs)