WE DISCUSS VANA’DIEL
#5 Yoshinori Kitase Part 2

Mr. Kitase, what were your honest thoughts when you heard the eleventh numbered title of the FF series would be an online game?

I’d like to preface this with a confession: I’m not really the type of person that plays MMORPGs (massively multiplayer online role-playing games) very often, though I played a bit of Ultima Online* back in the day.

A little before I started playing, people were speculating that RPGs would eventually be played online, where the characters you meet in-game would all be controlled by other players from around the world. So for me, Ultima Online’s release seemed like the beginning of the online game era, and when FFXI was announced as an MMORPG, it really drove home the idea that the future had arrived.

As a game developer, did you ever feel like it was a reckless endeavor?

I certainly thought it’d be hard to create a 3D online RPG; after all, there weren’t even that many single-player RPGs with full-3D at the time.

For instance, FFVII and FFVIII used pre-rendered backgrounds for a pseudo-3D appearance. Even FFX, which I was working on at the time, was limited to a “rail camera” system where the 3D models were only shown from a predetermined angle.

We’d determined early on that it’d be difficult to create a full-3D game viewable from all angles at the graphics quality expected from single-player games at the time. It was a decision we made after considering the hardware limitations, of course, but also the workload and development costs involved.

So considering even single-player games like FFX were planned with limited 3D graphics, a full-3D MMORPG sounded reckless in some ways. In terms of creating an MMORPG, Ultima Online had already proved it was possible, but that was a 2D game!

On the other hand, pragmatically deciding which parts of the game to leave out sounds difficult too. Even with FFXI, we refrained from putting too much effort into places where players can’t go or see with their camera.

With that said, FFXI’s 3D models have a truly wonderful quality to them.

We owe that to the efforts of the designers.

Just when they thought they could finally create beautiful 3D graphics with the cutting-edge hardware of the PlayStation 2 (PS2), we had to ask them to limit the polygon count per character and be frugal with texture sizes.

After all, we couldn’t predict how many characters would be on the screen at any given time, or what they might be wearing when displayed. All we could do was try to allow as many characters as possible to be displayed at once, which we accomplished by cutting down on memory usage per character while striking a balance with the quality of their appearance.

In FFX, we gave up on changing the characters’ appearances when they wore different armor.

However, we still wanted to at least make it work with weapons, so you can see the characters hold different weapons when you switch them. But in FFXI, you can see the characters change any of their equipment, including their armor, which I find amazing.

It might’ve simply been a difference in priorities, since FFXI just happened to be designed with that in mind. A lot of other things didn’t make the cut for FFXI too.

There were hardware limitations, after all.

In my opinion, the difference between an amateur and a professional is being able to decide what to concede. MMORPGs might boast a plethora of equipment and expansive overworlds, but behind the scenes, they probably have to give up a lot of things in exchange.

In terms of scenario, for example, we couldn’t have characters standing around in a public area if we knew they were going to disappear from the story later on. We also generally couldn’t do transformational changes, like having a penniless character suddenly become wealthy after a turn of events.

There weren’t a lot of MMORPGs back then, so you probably didn’t have many examples to reference, right? I suppose there was EverQuest* for 3D graphics, but how did you come up with the game design and architecture? Did you run into any problems while figuring out how to make the game?

I’d say there weren’t too many problems.

We were able to pretty much trace our ideas from existing games. However, there were times when the game I was referencing implemented things in a way that seemed illogical to me, and I racked my brain thinking, “Why did they go out of their way to do it like this?” I similarly struggled with figuring out the reason behind rules that didn’t feel quite right to me.

Can you give us an example?

When you’re KO’d in EverQuest, you lose a portion of your EXP, just like in FFXI.

In FFXI, the EXP penalty is calculated based on how much EXP you need to reach the next level. In EverQuest, however, the penalty was calculated based on how much EXP was needed to reach your current level. On top of that, the amount of EXP needed to level up skyrocketed every five or ten levels.

Because of these two rules, you might sigh in relief after finally leveling up past one of the tough levels, only to lose an enormous amount of EXP when you were KO’d. Japanese players referred to these as “secret hell levels,” but I couldn’t understand why it was made that way.
In the end, the only explanation I could come up with was “That’s how the developers wanted to do it, I guess.”

There were very few MMORPGs back then, or even online games in general, and I imagine there were many unknown factors during development. How did you figure out things like if six to eighteen player battles were feasible online, or how fast the pace of the battles should be?

There really wasn’t much we could do besides run imaginary simulations in our minds.

However, 6-player parties turned out to be two or three times more effective at annihilating enemies than my estimates, which you could say were completely off the mark. Not to mention, I figured players would avoid enemies that were way higher in level, but everyone went after them and would exclaim, “We don’t have enough accuracy!”

In my mind, I was shouting back, “That’s right! I didn’t expect anyone at that level to fight that monster!” (laughs)

Later on, “incredibly tough” was added to indicate enemies that were unsuitable for you to fight, but everyone still went after them anyway. (laughs)

As a result of my underestimation, players went around leveling up from “incredibly tough” enemies they could just barely defeat. So when I handled the battle design for FFXIV, I used completely different calculations.

Sounds like your experience from FFXI came in handy.

That being said, I probably won’t have another opportunity to make an MMORPG from scratch...

After all you’ve learned? That’s a shame. (laughs)

By the way, I was wondering if parties consist of 6 players because of specification-related reasons or party roles.

I believe that was something Mr. Tanaka (Hiromichi Tanaka, original producer of FFXI) and Mr. Ishii (Koichi Ishii, original director of FFXI) were very particular about. Parties consisting of only four players would have strictly defined roles, and it didn’t seem like adding a fifth player would change that. But they figured that six players would be enough leeway to play with different party compositions.

The typical roles of tank/attacker/support/healer would take up four slots by themselves, so that makes sense.

It’s impressive how you came up with these designs based on imagination, despite having little knowledge to work with.

I’d say battle designers are always thinking about those sorts of things.

It’s like how people in the Scenario or Events teams are able to find narratives in their everyday lives like, “I wonder what that couple is talking about,” or “Why is there a sock in a place like this?”

I guess that’s true! (laughs)

But there’s all kinds of players, and there’s no guarantee everyone uses the party compositions you imagined, right? And yet your designs still work in those cases, and that’s what astounds me.

I have a policy regarding that sort of thing.

Weird rules, even those designed with players in mind, can become a vulnerability and will be exploited by miscreants. As a general guideline, you usually can’t go wrong with making rules similar to those found in nature, like scientific laws. Personally, I’m fond of normal distributions* and other mathematical functions. Scientists and statisticians worked hard to come up with those functions, and there’s no reason for us to not use them.

Did you ever have debates over game direction with Mr. Ishii, who’s more of a self-made genius?

I recall an argument with Mr. Ishii over whether Bats should be classified as Beasts or Birds.

That’s exactly what a bat dilemma* is! (laughs)

I wanted to classify them as Beasts.

What are they according to taxonomy?

They’re mammals.

But Mr. Ishii felt that Bats were Birds, and he insisted, “The people of Vana’diel view them as birds. Birds are fine,” until I finally caved. Mr. Ishii can be very particular about certain things.

I think he had the right idea in terms of game design, since categorizing Bats as Birds grouped them together with other enemies that have similar vulnerabilities and are defeated in a similar manner.

Ah, because when you see a Bat, your intuition says, “They seem vulnerable to piercing damage,” just like with Birds.

So there were a few incidents like that, but otherwise I didn’t argue with Mr. Ishii very often. In fact, most of the time he was like, “I’ll leave it to you to come up with the details!” and would let me decide. (laughs)

There are often conflicts between designers who go for realism and those who focus on making the game look good, so I was curious how it was with FFXI.

There were a lot of kinds of disagreements on a smaller scale.

For instance, I personally dislike having specialized one-time rules. But when those kinds of rules were to be used in a story or event, I sometimes gave in, thinking, “Well, if it helps them design it better…”

Did you have conflicts in your team, Mr. Kitase?

In the latest games, you can use virtual light sources, which shine and reflect light just like light sources in real life.

When we were making cutscenes for FFVII, we had designers who wanted to place temporary light sources when zooming in on a character’s face in order to make them look better. That idea clashed with the designers who were going for realism and didn’t want to place light sources in unnatural places.

Aren’t artificial light sources used on a daily basis in TV shows and movies too?

In games, you can place light sources pretty much anywhere, and sometimes that affects the surrounding environment instead of just the focal character.

I see. In extreme cases, I guess you could even put a light source directly next to their face.

The premise is to make something that convinces players, but it’s important to remember it’s a game too. Game development is a tough line of work, one that couldn’t be done if the developers themselves weren’t having a great time.

Mr. Kitase, when did you first see the completed version of FFXI? What were your impressions?

I don’t quite remember...

I think it was when I played it when official service launched, just like everybody else.
We announced FFIX, FFX, and FFXI at the Square Millennium Event* in 2000, and our teams were preoccupied with working on their titles.

I suppose you were too busy with FFX to keep an eye on other projects.

When I saw FFXI for the first time after release, my impression was like, “Wow, it really moves in 3D!”

At the Square Millennium Event, our company was like, “Online is the future!” and simultaneously announced PlayOnline, and I was truly surprised when FFXI was released as a full-fledged MMORPG only a few years later.

We had an incredible lineup of team members even just looking at the programmers alone, so giving up wasn’t an option.

That reminds me.

Not that I’d visited the FFXI development workplace myself, but I remember hearing rumors about a staff member who became addicted to EverQuest and stopped coming to work. (laughs) Hearing that, I was like, “It’s hard to quit once you start, huh? MMORPGs must be really deep!”

It was Main Programmer Y...

To think someone of such importance disappeared into the world of EverQuest..

Having heard those kinds of rumors, I remember thinking MMORPG development must be tough. I eventually experienced one of our smartphone titles, which is a little different from an MMORPG, but I understood how certain games just pull you in.

Have you played FFXI, Mr. Kitase?

I’ve played it a little.

Since we were going to have this talk session, I logged in for the first time in over a decade and was impressed to see my character was still there.

Oh, I see. Which race did you choose?

Male Hume. In these kinds of games, I typically choose an orthodox character.

Which nation are you allied with?

I think it was San d’Oria. I remember battling an Orc. As for the job, I was a level 11 red mage. You can tell I really hadn’t played at all. (laughs) I was playing solo, so I guess I just stopped there. (laughs)

(laughs)

I also played Ultima Online, but I’m hesitant to join parties.

I’m like that too.

I think I stopped playing because it was difficult to get by alone. But nowadays, there’s no problem playing solo, right?

Yes, it’s fine now. You can even form a party with NPCs.

My interest was piqued a little when I heard that you can play solo now.

Back then, it was pretty hard to level up by yourself after level 10.

Once you get to La Theine Plateau, even “even match” enemies start to get tough to defeat, so you end up having to pick on weaker enemies. But they don’t yield as much EXP, and the amount of EXP needed to level up increases with each level, so it becomes harder and harder to level up. There’s also an increased likelihood of getting KO’d as more monsters begin to link or ambush you.

There were quite a lot of FFXI players in our company back then, like Tetsuya Nomura (character designer of FFVII, and director of the Kingdom Hearts series and FFVII Remake).

That’s true.

I also remember hearing that Mr. Hazama (Ichiro Hazama, producer of FINAL FANTASY Record Keeper) was often called out by Mr. Nomura. (laughs)

Those of us who could put groups together in real life had that ability in the online world too. On the other hand, I was more of a lone wolf and couldn’t make friends even in the online world... (laughs wryly)

Isn’t it a little strange that the producer of the entire FF series is a lone wolf? (laughs)