WE DISCUSS VANA’DIEL
#10 Naoki Yoshida Part 4

What are your priorities when it comes to engaging with players or the members of your team as a game producer?

For me, it's simple: it’s about whether or not the game is thrilling for me, those making it, and those who will play it—that's all there is to it. As a form of entertainment, games should compel people to consider, “Hey, that looks fun. I’ll give it a try!” Many of FFXI and FFXIV’s developers are active players, so if I announce a new venture and they don’t respond with cheers, eagerness, or even wry smiles, I’d know the venture is bound to fail even if we press on with it.

Mr. Saito* brought up a similar topic when we spoke in a previous interview.

With new expansions, for example, we announce our goals in front of everyone from the Development and Operations teams, but at that point, our presentation better elicit a response like, “Wow, so That’s the new job!” or there’d be no way that our customers would be excited either. This year (2022) on February 19th, we did a broadcast where I spoke about the next ten years for FFXIV, but I actually had the same talk with the Development and Operations teams a week prior to that. During the presentation, I saw everyone with smiles on their faces and I remember thinking, “This is going to be all right.”

This concept applies outside of FFXIV too, and it’s something I’ve been conscious of since my Hudson Soft days; whether or not the designers and programmers react positively has been a key factor for me.

Naturally, in order for the developers to stay motivated, the game has to be enjoyable for them too.

I’m also very particular about maintaining a firm stance against deficit spending. No matter how interesting a venture may seem or how much enthusiasm there is for it, I won’t approve anything that is foreseen going into the red.

There’s no future for a venture that results in a deficit, so I’ve always said to use any means necessary to make sure that we at least break even. Should we manage that, the company would say, "Well, it wasn't particularly profitable, but we can let them try again." Whereas if it was a deficit, no matter how interesting the results were, they'll just reply, "It's not going to sell,” and that’ll be the end of that.

It sounds like a non-negotiable point you’ve built up throughout your career.

In order for us to keep creating things that we enjoy ourselves, maintaining credibility with our company, and not just with our customers, is extremely critical and something I’ll defend no matter what. So long as I do that, the company will say, “We can keep FFXI going if Creative Business Unit III and Yoshida say so.” Not only are trust and credibility essential aspects of our relationship with our customers, but our relationships with others in our company, team, and department as well.

Conversely, my first project in the game industry was FFIV, and back in those days, any game that was released would sell, so we got away with not having to worry about that aspect too much. (laughs)

I envy that. (laughs) That’s just how things were back then, but it’s true that when I first came to Square Enix, I felt that the staff were too naïve. There were numerous situations where I thought, “I wish they’d at least consider the cost-effectiveness in terms of CPUs and GPUs…” The graphic designers had grown assertive to the point that they believed programmers could magically fulfill all their requests, which became an underlying cause of FFXIV version 1.0’s failure; I really felt that was a bad mindset.

That gives context to how Mr. Yoshida was very strict about the numbers when he took over FFXI, which we talked about in a previous interview. Do you remember what it was like when he took over, Mr. Matsui?

I was originally a Battle Designer, so I like working with numbers specifically. But despite being familiar with extrapolating information from numbers, using them to manipulate the future was honestly quite frightening. Just in terms of money, for example, I was dealing with figures thousands of times greater than my salary, and using Excel to ensure the validity of those values… I still find it frightening even to this day.

In that sense too, it’s fortunate that your division is led by Mr. Yoshida, who understands MMORPGs.

It certainly is. When we have a serious discussion about business principles, he’ll secretly tell me afterward, “To be honest, here’s how you can do it instead,” and that helps me out a lot. (laughs) He’s strict but also open-minded. The kind of advice he’ll give me is, “There’s no way of knowing if the promotional expenses will actually go according to plan, but make sure you have a solid reason for anything that requires money.”

The way I see it, numbers are a manifestation of passion. If they approach me saying, “This is what we’re hoping to accomplish, please allow us to spend this much,” their plan is well-reasoned, and the numbers aren’t too far off, that’s good enough for me.

I see, so that’s another one of your guidelines.

On the other hand, I would never approve spending money for something they just want to try without any goals. That kind of spending won’t lead to “the next step.”

In baseball, for example, you keep track of the pitches that have been thrown so far, then swing the bat based on your prediction of what sort of pitch is coming. Aside from the geniuses who can hit on reflex, I think that’s pretty much how it goes. Furthermore, the game doesn’t end with that one pitch; it keeps going. If you get a hit, you start predicting the next one; if you don’t get a hit, you analyze why you missed—that’s what’s important. Standing in the batter’s box and just swinging aimlessly isn’t what professional players would do.

That's true.

To be honest, you can’t tell if you’ve hit or missed until we see the final result. But it’s important to convince others, and to have evidence and a basis that everyone can believe in and act on. The same could be said for FFXI, which got as far as it did thanks to Mr. Hiromichi’s* unquestionable direction. And now, I believe it’s our turn to present that basis as a team and continue moving forward.

A big question for players who support the current state of the game is “How long will FFXI remain in service?” What are your thoughts on the timing for an MMORPG to close its doors?

There’s no telling when that’ll be for FFXI, but FFXI in particular has a physical limit to it’s lifespan, namely it’s development equipment. There will be a point where we inevitably enter “maintenance mode,” where we can provide bugfixes and keep the servers running but no longer will be able to add new content.

Personally, I intend to keep the servers available even if we enter maintenance mode, as long as Creative Business Unit III remains profitable overall, for the sake of people who have built up so many memories or are still creating more in Vana’diel. Even if FFXI itself becomes unable to break even, I’d like to keep the servers open as long as possible to repay our customers who have supported “FF MMOs” up till now.

o that end, those of us in Creative Business Unit III as a whole will need to do our best.

Should we enter maintenance mode down the road, there’d be a lot of things to consider, such as what we’d do about the monthly subscription. But that time has yet to come; Mr. Matsui and his team are working hard, so let’s have the best 20th anniversary year we possibly can!

Is it safe to assume that we're in the clear for the time being?

Over these past two years, the FFXI development team has been working to reduce operational costs, such as using virtual machines on servers, which have cut down the costs to an extremely minimal amount. With these efforts, we are still able to maintain operations stably, so we’re still in good shape for quite some time!

Although I’d love to keep this interview going, our time is almost up. To wrap things up, do you have any words for FFXI and our players as we celebrate the 20th anniversary?

Before I speak as the head of our division, I'd like to express my gratitude to all of you as a middle-aged man who loves MMORPGs. Thanks to everyone’s overwhelming enthusiasm for FFXI, the culture of online gaming was able to take root in Japan and the console gaming market. I feel nothing but gratitude for all of you who have continued to love FFXI for such a long time, including those who are taking a break from their adventures, and of course, those who are still active in the world of Vana’diel. Thank you all very much.

Is there anything you’d like to say as the leader of Creative Business Unit III?

FFXI’s development and operations specialists are continually working to ensure that players can continue to enjoy the 20th anniversary and beyond, which has my full confidence. What I can do now, as the head of Creative Business Unit III, is to do my utmost to keep the world of Vana’diel going as long as possible, whether that be years, months, or even days longer. Creative Business Unit III as a whole will be maintaining it as a place where you can always come back to or continue to stay, so I hope you'll continue to enjoy Vana'diel from here on out as well. I've also told the CEO that as long as Creative Business Unit III remains profitable, FFXI will keep going for a while even if it goes into maintenance mode, so please continue to enjoy your adventures!